“Pain during acupuncture”
Hello-
I have worked in Natural Body Manipulation for over 25 years and specialize in severe chronic issues. When I have a client that can benefit from another modality, I refer them out. I use acupuncturist for a variety of reasons.
I referred a client 46 male, to a 20plus year acupuncturist. The client has had excruciating pain every time the needles are put in. He cannot stand the needles entering his body. He receives some relief for 1-2 days (maybe) after treatment.
- The pain is excruciating- he is a cop and can handle pain
- There are red marks that arise after she does it sometimes. (It does not look like old bruising, but she may have broken new capillaries).
- He can handle massage, cranial treatment and neural palpation
- No herb routine is making a difference in his inflammatory response. herbs are given by the acupuncturist. She has tried 4 different ideas.
- His skin is inflamed.
- He has made fluid filled cysts in his low back
- His initial injury is from being hit as a motorcycle cop on the side at 60mph
- he has received the most benefit from neural palpation
- I cant seem to get a good response or think from other acupuncturist that I know
- All of his blood work comes back clear
- Could he have some type of overworking blood system?
- Would anyone credit this to limbic overload?
- Why would it hurt so badly?
I have worked in Natural Body Manipulation for over 25 years and specialize in severe chronic issues. When I have a client that can benefit from another modality, I refer them out. I use acupuncturist for a variety of reasons.
I referred a client 46 male, to a 20plus year acupuncturist. The client has had excruciating pain every time the needles are put in. He cannot stand the needles entering his body. He receives some relief for 1-2 days (maybe) after treatment.
- The pain is excruciating- he is a cop and can handle pain
- There are red marks that arise after she does it sometimes. (It does not look like old bruising, but she may have broken new capillaries).
- He can handle massage, cranial treatment and neural palpation
- No herb routine is making a difference in his inflammatory response. herbs are given by the acupuncturist. She has tried 4 different ideas.
- His skin is inflamed.
- He has made fluid filled cysts in his low back
- His initial injury is from being hit as a motorcycle cop on the side at 60mph
- he has received the most benefit from neural palpation
- I cant seem to get a good response or think from other acupuncturist that I know
- All of his blood work comes back clear
- Could he have some type of overworking blood system?
- Would anyone credit this to limbic overload?
- Why would it hurt so badly?
Male | 46 years old
Complaint duration: 6 months
13 Answers
Hello, It sounds to me that your client has been through some trauma, probably the accident, and his body has held on to the experience and needs to be released somehow. It’s as if he’s boiling under his skin. Acupuncture can help by releasing the “fire” within. This can be done with cupping temporarily until the needles won’t bother him. Herbs to treat the fire
could assist. Also he would benefit from being treated emotionally with acupuncture, maybe with very few needles. There’s a technique called “5 element”, which specifically works on the emotions. It can be very powerful. I would look for an acupuncturist who specializes in that but I do think with not too many sessions he will find relief. It takes some patience when working with past emotional trauma.
could assist. Also he would benefit from being treated emotionally with acupuncture, maybe with very few needles. There’s a technique called “5 element”, which specifically works on the emotions. It can be very powerful. I would look for an acupuncturist who specializes in that but I do think with not too many sessions he will find relief. It takes some patience when working with past emotional trauma.
Some people react to acupuncture in a way different from most of the others. I had a patient who was extremely sensitive to needling. Every single needle I put in made him scream in pain. After two sessions of acupuncture, I told him acupuncture could not help him and ended the treatment. This person may also be extremely sensitive to needling and he does not benefit from acupuncture.
When I see this happen, it is often part of a C-PTSD presentation, and involves feeling safe interacting with the world. This patient may benefit from a bladder luo treatment, sinew treatment, or the like, depending on other symptoms, but the issue would appear to be in that boundary between self and world.
Simply because the acupuncturist was not a good and professional doctor, please never go her office again.
Hi there I am not sure what the history with this patient is from my own experience. something doesn't make any sense with the pain increased unless the Acupuncturist did something wrong!! pain can't increase after Acupuncture therapy, pain can increase usually when the patient is pain free and he starts moving like nothing happened and It triggers the pain again i need to know a few things 1. what technique the acupuncturist use 2. what was the diagnosis 3. what kind of herbs he give to the patient in General is like anything in medicine when your diagnosis are wrong everything goes wrong Acupuncture are more gentle therapy and not aggressive therapy like moving bones and manipulating joints Acupuncture Release of endogenous opioids, serotonin, and norepinephrine may have downstream effects on nociceptors, inflammatory cytokines, and other physiologic mechanisms that can change pain perception. I will be more then happy to help if you have more question Regards Dr.Gavish
Aloha, I also have been doing acupuncture for many years and I can't see why he would be having this response. Possibly try running a hair text to see if he has a heavy metal toxicity. Aluminum, zinc, lead or mercury can sometimes cause this type of pain as it can't find a way out of the body.... Master Gina Musetti, L.Ac. Professional Acupuncturist Certified Master Teacher, Tao Academy (808) 349-0806 http://www.lifecenteredacupuncturecare.com/
This sounds like a very unusual case. Normally acupuncture needles, when used properly, would not cause pain, especially as you describe. Normally patients should feel comfortable during treatment and relief afterwards. I would need to see the patient to do any kind of diagnosis.
Thank you for sharing. I have quite a number of Chiropractic doctors as patients and these doctors understand and appreciate acupuncture and herbs, and they are patient with internal change and healing. I would recommend to your patient to change acupuncturist. We are diverse like the rainbow. I am personally and primarily trained in the Japanese meridian technique of acupuncture. We use special needles and a special technique which is “painless.” Pain is not necessary for healing. I sense that your patient has long-term inflammation that may not be picked up on Western medical blood labs. When the body has been inflamed for such a long time, the body becomes extremely sensitive to pain and any kind of stimuli even noise. This is my specialty, treating complex and chronic pain syndromes. He should try to find an experienced acupuncturist with over 20 years experience who does Japanese meridian acupuncture. Herbs is a different concern. The appropriate herbs are necessary for that level of inflammation as Eastern medicine defines inflammation.
Hi, thank you for your email. It seems to me that your client has needle phobia and the body overreact to needle insertion. I had a patient before, and she cried for 30 min even before I inserted an needle to her. I could only use the finest needle with minimal points for her but the result was very good. Another patient who was a marine, and he came for shoulder pain, and passed out after two needle insertion. My younger daughter also has needle phobia and I could not even insert a needle to any point in her body so far. To your client, I would suggest bloodletting cupping, which many patients can handle (surprisingly). Gua Sha also will be a good way to reduce pain. Hope this helps. May God bless you a happy 2024. Dr. Zhang
Additionally, there is such as sensitivity to needles themselves. If this is the case then desensitization can occur but it would probably need to be an in person appointment with an Applied Kinesology expert. Id help is needed to find one please Contact me directly at the email listed.
There are a number of reasons that acupuncture can hurt.
The first is that the person is dehydrated. Make sure he drinks at least 8 ounces of water before going to the acupuncturist (no soda or coffee or anything with caffeine as it dehydrates people). Also make sure he has proper electrolytes.
Another reason is fibromyalgia (FMS). Trauma can sometimes bring this on. It would take too much to explain FMS here – he would require a change of diet and boost his immune system. It is curable.
Finally, it is completely emotional. When the skin breaks out it can be either Wood or Air elements which represent anger or grief respectively. My guess would be anger. Wood is the Liver Gallbladder. Does he drink or do any drugs? Has he had any therapy to deal with the accident.
Many times an accident can cause PTSD. He may need help with this.
Without actually seeing the person and doing a tongue and pulse diagnosis it is impossible to tell the real underlying cause but 80% of the time there is always a significant emotional element to all conditions. Deal with the emotions first and sometimes the physical issues just go away.
The first is that the person is dehydrated. Make sure he drinks at least 8 ounces of water before going to the acupuncturist (no soda or coffee or anything with caffeine as it dehydrates people). Also make sure he has proper electrolytes.
Another reason is fibromyalgia (FMS). Trauma can sometimes bring this on. It would take too much to explain FMS here – he would require a change of diet and boost his immune system. It is curable.
Finally, it is completely emotional. When the skin breaks out it can be either Wood or Air elements which represent anger or grief respectively. My guess would be anger. Wood is the Liver Gallbladder. Does he drink or do any drugs? Has he had any therapy to deal with the accident.
Many times an accident can cause PTSD. He may need help with this.
Without actually seeing the person and doing a tongue and pulse diagnosis it is impossible to tell the real underlying cause but 80% of the time there is always a significant emotional element to all conditions. Deal with the emotions first and sometimes the physical issues just go away.
When people are in pain, their body can go on guard so any intrusion into the skin can hurt more. To this extreme level I would start to wonder if maybe there's some sort of nerve damage causing this over reaction of his pain receptors. With the history of trauma it could be a neuropathic pain response in the skin itself. Another theory is that he's allergic to the needles that are being used. A metal allergy is very rare, but some needles do have a coating on them to reduce friction. I was unclear if the fluid filled cysts were from the acupuncture or herbals. At a certain point I will also have a discussion with my more needle sensitive patients (tolerance to needling and tolerance to pain are different things) to ascertain if the benefits are even worth continuing treatments. Acupuncture cannot benefit every case as much as we wish it could. I hope this helps and that your patient is able to get relief from their pain.
I've been studying and practicing acupuncture for 20+ years myself. In that time, I've had one patient who had an allergy to surgical stainless steel. The needles weren't painful for her, but after treatment she would have large, red welts around the needle locations which took 2-3 days to resolve.
I have a few guesses here:
1. Your patient has a severe allergy to surgical stainless steel.
2. Your patient has been in chronic pain long enough that he has become centrally sensitized and his brain is now interpreting most signals as pain signals.
3. The acupuncturist is needling too deeply and/or has one track they use to treat issues like this and can't think outside the box enough to come up with another way that fits this patient better.
As far as the herbs go - it's very easy to miss on a Chinese diagnosis and get the wrong herbal formula. Most folks see "inflammation", think "heat" and go for heat clearing herbs. Sometimes this is the case, and sometimes it's a lot more complicated than that.
I'd have to see/evaluate the patient to give any more/better advice in this case. My best suggestion would be to see if you can find an acupuncturist who practices either Tung/Tan or has more of an ortho/sports medicine focus. You need someone who can either treat the painful area without needling in the painful area or someone who can address specific structure in the painful area with a high degree of accuracy. Unfortunately, most acupuncturists practice so-called "TCM" acupuncture and this leaves them limited when local needles either don't solve the problem, cause more problems, or both.
I have a few guesses here:
1. Your patient has a severe allergy to surgical stainless steel.
2. Your patient has been in chronic pain long enough that he has become centrally sensitized and his brain is now interpreting most signals as pain signals.
3. The acupuncturist is needling too deeply and/or has one track they use to treat issues like this and can't think outside the box enough to come up with another way that fits this patient better.
As far as the herbs go - it's very easy to miss on a Chinese diagnosis and get the wrong herbal formula. Most folks see "inflammation", think "heat" and go for heat clearing herbs. Sometimes this is the case, and sometimes it's a lot more complicated than that.
I'd have to see/evaluate the patient to give any more/better advice in this case. My best suggestion would be to see if you can find an acupuncturist who practices either Tung/Tan or has more of an ortho/sports medicine focus. You need someone who can either treat the painful area without needling in the painful area or someone who can address specific structure in the painful area with a high degree of accuracy. Unfortunately, most acupuncturists practice so-called "TCM" acupuncture and this leaves them limited when local needles either don't solve the problem, cause more problems, or both.
